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In a move that signals real change in post-Fidel Castro’s Cuba, Foreign Minister Felipe Perez Roque signed two UN agreements: the International Covenants on Civil and Political Rights and on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Fidel Castro had refused to sign these for thirty years. After 49 years at the helm, he handed over the reigns of government to his brother Raul upon recovering from intestinal surgery but has been accused of being the real behind-the-scenes decision-maker. The younger Castro does have permission from lawmakers to consult his brother on “the decisions of special transcendence for the future of our nation” especially those involving “defense, foreign policy and socio-economic development.” So how significant is the leadership change? That’s the question on everyone’s mind, from defenders of the Cuban revolution in Cuba and the US, to the Cuban-American anti-Castro community, and of course, to the US government. Last week two dozen Democratic and Republican Senators asked Secretary of State Rice in writing to reassess U.S. policy toward Cuba, saying “our current policy of isolation and estrangement has failed.”<\/p>\n Rough Transcript: <\/strong><\/p>\n Sonali Kolhatkar:<\/strong> Thanks so much for joining us today. So let me just ask you that general question then. Does Raul Castro represent real change or are we looking at more of the same? <\/p>\n Sujatha Fernandes: <\/strong>Well, I think it\u2019s going to be hard to tell what specific policies and changes he is going to implement. I do think that the human rights treaties that you mentioned, as well as some of the other changes in the cabinet illustrate a mixed kind of message. He had appointed Jose Ramon Machado Ventura, one of the, sort of, historical members of the original army with Fidel, signaling that he really is interested in continuity at the same time as signing these treaties that Fidel had resisted signing, signaling to some internationally that there are changes of thought. Personally, I don\u2019t believe that we are going to see anything that dramatic or different happening in the very near future with Raul taking over Fidel\u2019s position, but I do think that we have already seen a number of changes since July of 2006, when Fidel temporarily relinquished power. And I think that those changes have been in the culture of debate within the country, the jostling for power among various sections of the Cuban leadership and just a role that new sectors are beginning to play.<\/p>\n Sonali Kolhatkar:<\/strong> What do you make of the recent meeting between Cuba and the Vatican, and how that went? I mean, these are two countries that have had a very, very difficult relationship as well. <\/p>\n Sujatha Fernandes:<\/strong> Right, and again, I think that that is something I see as much more continuous with Cuban policy. Back in 1998, which was the first time that I had visited Cuba, the Pope actually spoke. And I remember that as a very significant moment when people really thought that there was going to be [inaudible] for the catholic population in Cuba, who for many years had been told that religion is not communist and that it is, as Marx said, opium of the people and for many years you had to hide your religion and to come out in the open with the Pope speaking about religion I think was an important thing for some people. At the same time, the Pope had apparently spoken to Bill Clinton or whoever and come in and saying, you know, well I want to bring up the issue of human rights. And so there was from both sides, this kind of, you know, each one with their own political agenda. The Cuban government clearly wishing to present its openness in this new inclusive post-Soviet era and the Vatican hoping to get in its own, you know, political kind of position into the mix. And I think we see that resurfacing here. I think that that ongoing kind of relationship between the Vatican and between the Cuban government wishing to both show its openness, but at the same time the Vatican itself imposing its own, you know, ideals on the Cuban government. I think it\u2019s that same dynamic continuing.<\/p>\n Sonali Kolhatkar: <\/strong>Well, President Bush has no plans to meet with Raul Castro, he says, and you know, Sujatha, for all the talk of human rights issues and the ability of dissidents to express themselves etc., all of which are real, the real issue at stake for US policy makers of course is none of that. We have had no problem making friends with countries that repress their people, but the real problem of course is the economic system. What does Raul Castro represent to you in terms of economic change, if any, in Cuba? Will he, you think, be opening up state sectors in the economy, particularly if and when Fidel passes? And I didn\u2019t mean to say if Fidel passes \u2013 when Fidel passes.<\/p>\n Sujatha Fernandes: <\/strong>Right, that\u2019s an interesting slip. But, you know I think that there are a lot of people that do seem to see Raul as somebody who will be carrying out reforms, and so several more mainstream Cubanologists and Cuban scholars have said that Raul is more representative of that. You know, encouraging the small business, encouraging private enterprise, wanting to bring in and sign trade treaties to open up the Cuban economy more than it had under Fidel. And that is perhaps true, but I think what they are missing is that today, we are in a very different regional geopolitical situation to what existed 10 years ago, when Raul was at the helm of carrying out some of these reforms. And I think that changed geopolitical situation is the rise of Venezuela, the rise of Bolivia, the rise of an alternative network of trade and politics that, you know, Venezuela\u2019s Hugo Chavez is speaking of socialism for the 21st century. And although it is not clear exactly what he means by that, they have started up trade treaties such as ALBA, the Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas, and various other trade treaties, which, if successful, and if Cuba and Venezuela manage to quite strongly develop some of these trade links along with Bolivia, Ecuador and other countries who are opposing a neoliberal agenda and bringing in alternative kind of politics. We could be seeing the polarities of well, is Cuba just going to stay socialist or is it going to become capitalist. We could see some of those polarities breaking down and more interesting kind of mixtures emerging.<\/p>\n Sonali Kolhatkar:<\/strong> So what sort of relationship do you expect between Raul Castro and a new president in the United States? Have you been commenting on, in your writings, the positions taken by Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, either of whom, well, I\u2019m not sure about Hillary anymore, but certainly Barack Obama could be the next president?<\/p>\n Sujatha Fernandes: <\/strong>Right, right. I\u2019m not sure, I think again that\u2019s hard to say, because during the debate in Texas, they were very specifically asked about Cuba and Barack Obama responded saying that he would meet with Raul Castro without putting limitations, and Hillary Clinton said that she may, depending on what he was willing to change and if he was going to be worthy of an American visit. So they both had their different opinions on that, and I don\u2019t want to be too optimistic about it, because I know that given the history of US-Cuba relations in politics, it\u2019s always been a highly contested thing, especially when it comes down to the Miama community and their historical support for, you know, or the more wealthy sectors of the Miama community, their support for bills such as the Helms-Burton bill, which reinforced the embargo. And so, given the internal dynamics of American politics, I think it is very hard to say, even despite, and I think that it\u2019s easy to say it now that, oh yeah, we would pursue a relationship or whatever it takes now, but given the realities on the ground I\u2019m not sure. At the same time, I think that there are a lot of sectors within the United States pushing for a closer relationship with Cuba and many within the administration themselves recognize the futility of the policy with Cuba that has remained for so long, and so, if just this change in leadership would be the thing that would actually, you know, bring some new life into attempts to end the embargo, to bring Cuba and US leaders back into conversation and dialogue, I think that it could be a very helpful thing.<\/p>\n Sonali Kolhatkar:<\/strong> Well, no one is really talking about ending the embargo or, Barack Obama is talking about, he goes as far as saying easing travel restrictions and easing restrictions on remittances from Cuban Americans to their families back on the island. But is he talking specifically about the embargo?<\/p>\n Sujatha Fernandes:<\/strong> No, he is not. And I think this is again where playing into the specificities of US politics, of the different interest groups and the different constituencies and everybody trying to appeal to these particular sectors. I think that\u2019s again where, you know, you are right. Nobody is talking about the embargo or addressing it directly. I think there are those certain sectors, you know, certain agricultural interest in business, and people who economically feel that they could really benefit, as well as arts and cultural policy sectors, and various of these have signed a petition, various artists and cultural leaders within the United States have signed a petition asking for the end of the embargo. And so I think that, even though they are very heterogeneous, I don\u2019t know that they necessarily share anything in common with the farmers or with other groups pushing for an end to the embargo, but there are various groups who are pushing for this and I think that it\u2019s something that the US government can\u2019t ignore for too much longer, and a new leader in particular.<\/p>\n Sonali Kolhatkar:<\/strong> Let\u2019s talk about civil society within Cuba itself – something that you have examined quite a lot. Particularly younger generations in Cuba, how are they viewing this change and also how have their expressions of dissidents, if any, been expressed since Raul Castro has taken over?<\/p>\n Sujatha Fernandes: <\/strong>Well, my take on what is happening in civil society is that I think for a lot of people they thought that once Fidel leaves, there would be a period of chaos and disintegration and this would create the possibility for people to come out onto the streets and protest. And I think what we have seen instead is something very interesting, which is a period of very fruitful discussions, dialogue; and rap musicians, who are the people that I have been working with in Cuba, have really continued to do their music, have taken advantage of an environment that seems to be more open with Raul making statements on national television, saying that he is calling for national debate. I think the biggest expression though, even more than the rap musicians, has been what was called the war of the emails that took place soon after Fidel temporarily stepped down in 2006. And what we saw in January 2007 was a response by artists and intellectuals to the resurfacing of certain cultural officials who are associated with the period of the seventies known as the gray years or a period of more authoritarian tendencies. And these intellectuals started circulating these emails and it got to the point where Granma, which is the official newspaper of the state, actually published a letter by the National Union of Writers and Artists with support of these criticisms and [inaudible] 400 writers and artists to debate what the legacy of the gray years was. And then on Raul Castro\u2019s 26th of July speech, this was again picked up and he talked about the need for, to seriously think about the problems that are facing Cubans, to really not just from the leadership, throughout civil society, debate what new ideas and new reforms could help Cubans get beyond this period. So I think, from both young people and from established writers, intellectuals and artists in Cuba we have seen this last few periods almost as something reminiscent of the sixties. I mean the sixties was a period where there was a lot of fluidity and dialogue and debate \u2013 just excitement about what could our future be. And my sense is that there is a little bit of that happening right now as well of people becoming engaged and really thinking about, you know, what could our future be.<\/p>\n Sonali Kolhatkar:<\/strong> Finally, Sujatha, in the last minute or so that we have left, where do you think Raul Castro\u2019s policies are going to lead, particularly on his position toward the US. We have talked about how others are going to be viewing Raul Castro, but what about his approach to the US and the rest of the world?<\/p>\n Sujatha Fernandes:<\/strong> I mean he has said that he would be open to talking, he said it several times, he would be open to talking to the political leaders in the United States, and I feel like he is partly, you know, the releasing of political prisoners, the signing of the human rights treaties, are all small sort of gestures towards saying, look, we are actually making some changes here. And I think that he would be open to it, although, as I said before, the dominant sort of ideology and thoughts in Cuba continue to revolve around socialism and I think that there has to be a certain respect from the United States that it can\u2019t [inaudible] a neoliberal market ideology or free trade ideology on Cuba, that rather, they have to be open to debating and dialoguing with them on the grounds that this is where Cuba is at.<\/p>\n Special Thanks to Claudia Greyeyes for transcribing this interview<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" | the entire program GUEST: Sujatha Fernandes, Assistant Professor of Sociology at Queens College, New York, author of Cuba Represent In a move that signals real change in post-Fidel Castro’s Cuba, Foreign Minister Felipe Perez Roque signed two UN agreements: the International Covenants on Civil and Political Rights and on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. 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GUEST: Sujatha Fernandes, Assistant Professor of Sociology at Queens College, New York, author of Cuba Represent<\/em><\/p>\n